VCR Bill

Last of the Credit Card - credit limit to be spent in the next 2 weeks - damn it so much to choose from (weapon-wise), so little time.

As far as I can see 'project' guns is indeed 'manufacturing' since it's legal jargon rather than common word use. This is by-the-by though for a pukka (conforming to Home Office requirements) airsofter as they have a defense and can still buy, import and manufacture.

And yes, I think RSOV etc are going to be busy over the next four weeks or so!

: Edited to make slightly more sense

I'm going too speak to some of the Courier companies this week, and HMR&C. If some of them (UPS for example) hold onto airsoft guns until a velocity declaration has been received from the purchaser, I see no reason why a copy of your "site ID members card" couldn't do the same - its all down to what HMR&C will find acceptable.

I WILL NOT accept that our choice is limited just because UKARA are creating a closed shop (maybe by intention, maybe not). I will not accept that there isn't a way that registered Airsoft skirmishers cannot import - because quite clearly, if a business is importing from the far east, then an individual should be able to as well. There is NOTHING written into the VCR Act that only businesses can import Airsoft guns.

It should be pointed out, that the UKARA Database is not the be-all and end-all of this. HMG have stated that they will not allow the creation of a monopoly, and there is nothing to stop another organisation doing a similar thing.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings, and i'll chin the bitch as soon as she stands up.

Its all a plot to get extra votes for the Labour Party & we are the fall guys, when the next General election comes they will tell the voters look what we have done, we have removed from general sale the ability to buy nasty realistic airsoft guns off the streets & this will cut down gun crime, if you have one now you will get 10 years in jail, it may look good on the New Labour Election leaflet but the fact is real criminals, that want to comit real crimes will get real guns, happens more & more every day, one Labour party supporter said to me yesterday as we talked about the latest shooting in Liverpool, they said the way to tackle gun crime is to ban real handguns, I pointed out they have been banned since 1996

Steve.D

We know the whole thing is a bad joke, they know it wont do sod-all to reduce "gun crime". But, as usual they "have to be seen to be doing something". If you want to blame anyone/thing for this crazy state of affairs, blame the Media. They whip up public interest, and "special advisors" to HMG start jumping all over the place.

The question is, what are they going to blame guncrime on next?

Cant blame semi auto rifle's - banned in 88
Cant blame handguns - banned in 97
Cant blame Replicas - Banned (with exceptions!) in 07

As it stands, De-acs are the only things that are going to be *freely* available. Anyone care to guess what will be blamed next?

Then, when it's all banned, what will the government of the day start blaming it on?

Is there any way we can set CIA up as a "club", with a constitution, et al? I'd be happy to pay subs to get round being tied to a site I'll never visit.

I understand your concern there Sarge. Unless I've misunderstood what I've read so far from UKARA spokespersons, the only way any of us are going to be able to have our airsofting credentials certified is by playing at an authorised site and becoming recognised as a regular player, and I guess that might mean continuing to play there on a fairly regular basis. That seems a small price to pay IMO as long as groups of bona fide players will not be prevented from hiring sites in the future, to essentially do their own thing - if they are all authorised players, playing with legal guns on an authorised site with all the necessary insurance etc. etc. I don't see why it should - I certainly don't think it ought to -

i to agree on the CIA club theme, i dont play at one site, and im buggered if im going to play open days at some site, just to be called a ASCOCKSUCK member

who the hell the these "GOVERNING BODYS" think they are, the goverment hasnt formed a governing body, so theres no such legal group,

its just a few forum admins, (most of whom have shops based in the uk)

they think there the "offical" voice.

well BUGGER them, i will skirmish wether or not i have an ID card, , the vcr states any existing stuff is ok, you just cant buy new gear.

and the only time youll have to make a defence, is if the "old bill" actually stop you in possesion of a airsoft gun.

considering most people drive to the sites, and dont wave them around, how would any one EVER know you own an aeg, unless you act foolish or flash it about, no one need ever know.

one thing though, if you do "register" and have an id, then any problems with tits using them near your house,, and the old bill may "visit you"

if they dont know youve got em, why tell em.

when i had "real" guns, id got a "visit" from mr plod, when some tit had been trading guns in my name, they came to me as the name given by a scally in liverpool , matched me,
so mr plod said" have you sold a IMI jericho 9mm, and a .357 desert eagle"

"have i bollox"

"oh a guy in liverpool claimed to be you"

"check my lkicence mate",

"oh, no guns purchaced like that", your ok

but i still had the pold at the door, and the neighbours talking shite.

good job idnever bought a jericho or deagle, or id have been in the shite, and investigated, as numbers can be restamped, and dodgy gear sold as pukka.

I think you've got a few things mixed up there matey. PM heading your way...

Cheers,

Jay

Is there any way we can set CIA up as a "club", with a constitution, et al? I'd be happy to pay subs to get round being tied to a site I'll never visit.

I understand your concern there Sarge. Unless I've misunderstood what I've read so far from UKARA spokespersons, the only way any of us are going to be able to have our airsofting credentials certified is by playing at an authorised site and becoming recognised as a regular player, and I guess that might mean continuing to play there on a fairly regular basis. That seems a small price to pay IMO as long as groups of bona fide players will not be prevented from hiring sites in the future, to essentially do their own thing - if they are all authorised players, playing with legal guns on an authorised site with all the necessary insurance etc. etc. I don't see why it should - I certainly don't think it ought to -

To clarify, the VCR Act is all about buying, importing and manufacturing of RIF's (Realistic Imitation Firearms) It's not about their use, or what you own already. Buying spares/accessories is still fine from HK, hell, there's a letter from Blears when she was Home Sec saying that's ok.

Now here's where it gets interesting.....

What we do blurs the gaps between "airsoft" and "reenactment". Reenactment has a defence for buying RIF's in the Act itself, Airsoft has a defence by regulation. Please note the use of "RIF". it does not state "Airsoft", "modelguns" "blank firers". it groups the lot under "RIF".

Now, say an *official* Airsoft Reenactment group got off the ground. You'd need PLI, and a "probation" period, like other re-enactment groups, but then you'd fall under the Amendment, not the Regulation...

Something to think about for the future?

What ever happens post October I can see a mad rush now to buy all sorts of stuff

Steve.D

Yes Kermit, for some reason folk keep thinking this is some great conspiracy by site owners/ retailers. It isn't (though some may have sought to take advantage). As a player nothing has changed at all, not one thing. It's buying and selling that has been regulated.

Put yourself in the position of a retailer who stands to have his stock confiscated, a criminal investigation and a trial followed by a fine/prison if he sells to someone who doesn't have a proscribed defence. Therefore he is going to make damn sure of the status of the purchaser. How does he distinguish between an airsofter (legal) collector (illegal)? Clearly, and airsofter is someone who has played at an airsoft site!

As this scheme is self-regulated then the airsoft community has to show some sort of robustness to prevent a non-allowed person turning up at a site, paying £15 as a means to gain their status of airsofter. Hence the three games rule.

Note that you don't have to join this scheme or indeed any other. If challenged by the police you may seek to provide your own defence but you may well have to explain yourself in court! Likewise, retailers will need cast iron proof of your status to cover their own backs so UK purchases are going to be tricky.

CiA discussed setting up as an insured group many months ago and was dismissed as being a very expensive solution to a potential problem, however that's not to say we won't re-open this discussion.

Finally, I have scoured the latest draft of the legislation amendments and there is now no specific reference to airsofters at all, so we have the same status as TV, film, stage, historical reenactment except that as Kermit says, we come under Regulations (which can be removed at the stroke of a pen by the Home Secretary) not the Act (which requires Parliamentary vote to change).

Im going to be buying a Thompson from RSOV hopefully this week if not next week at the latest.

sorry chaps if i seem angry and negative, (what me never)

but ive been here before when the handgun ban came out, its like deja vous at the moment

Im going to be buying a Thompson from RSOV hopefully this week if not next week at the latest.

your a bad boy you should be buying p38 or k98 / g33 tut tut

So.... If I am reading this correctly as of 1/11/07 we will ony be able to buy kit in person and not from the web?

Nope, face-to-face sales are for AIRGUNS, not AIRSOFT.

Im going to be buying a Thompson from RSOV hopefully this week if not next week at the latest.

your a bad boy you should be buying p38 or k98 / g33 tut tut

Just brough a P38 last week,just want to get the thompson now so i can do a US/British impression in the future.

Nope, face-to-face sales are for AIRGUNS, not AIRSOFT.

So - and forgive me if I am being dense - nothing reall changes and I can still buy my airsoft gunz online or in a shop?

Er, no. Couldnt be further from the truth. From Oct 1st you will have to prove that you are an "Airsoft Skirmisher". To this end, you have to be a "member" of a Skirmish site ( a Proper one, with PLI and the like). There will be a set of minimum standards for gaining a membership card. once thats done, your details will then go onto a Database thats been paid for by UKARA.

To to sum up, from Oct 1st it is ILLEGAL to Sell, Manufacture or Import "Realistic Imitation Firearms". BUT, we have a defence by regulation (not as good as a defence by amendment, but better than nowt).

I could write a ream on this, but i wont. Google "UKASGB" and find a lot of documents on their website.

Does this mean that with a membership card we'll still be able to buy guns from the Far East ? I can't see how this will work, i can't think that DHL will be able to determine if my card is valid or not, or is it the case we'll only be able to buy from UK suppliers?